EMILY KWONG, HOST:
Motion pictures can inform us lots about what scares us. And ever because the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki 80 years in the past this week, the worry of nuclear struggle has reverberated throughout many years of movie, like in the very best image winner “Oppenheimer,” concerning the so-called father of the atomic bomb.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “OPPENHEIMER”)
MATT DAMON: (As Leslie Groves) Are we saying there’s an opportunity that after we push that button, we destroy the world?
CILLIAN MURPHY: (As J. Robert Oppenheimer) Nothing…
KWONG: Whereas director Christopher Nolan turned to historical past, different filmmakers have explored the nuclear age by speculative fiction…
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “CRIMSON TIDE”)
DENZEL WASHINGTON: (As Ron Hunter) If we launch and we’re unsuitable, what’s left of Russia goes to launch at us.
KWONG: …Or science fiction.
(SOUNDBITE OF GODZILLA ROARING)
KWONG: To speak by the artwork impressed by the nuclear age, we have introduced in NPR science correspondent Geoff Brumfiel and investigations correspondent Sacha Pfeiffer. Hello, you each.
SACHA PFEIFFER, BYLINE: Hello, Geoff and Emily.
GEOFF BRUMFIEL, BYLINE: Hello there.
KWONG: A lot of this style, to me, is about making sense of horror, proper? It is about talking about unspeakable issues, of which nuclear catastrophe, for many who survive it, is actually one in all them. And likewise simply the worry that nuclear struggle brings – it is actually psychological. So Sacha, are you able to discuss concerning the first film you ever noticed that introduced nuclear nervousness to your consideration?
PFEIFFER: Sure, and I wish to say that when a editor on the present requested me to hitch this dialog, it isn’t as a result of I am a specific knowledgeable in nuclear struggle films, however he knew I used to be Gen X, and there have been plenty of nuclear struggle films popping out within the ’80s. And he made…
KWONG: It is a trait of your era…
PFEIFFER: (Laughter).
KWONG: …Yeah.
PFEIFFER: We have been in type of nonetheless within the grips of the Chilly Battle. And I – it made me suppose again to once I was in all probability 12 years previous, and this TV film got here out referred to as “The Day After.”
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “THE DAY AFTER”)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) This isn’t an train.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Roger, perceive. Main Reinhardt, now we have a large assault towards the U.S. presently. ICBMs, quite a few ICBMs. Roger, perceive. Over 300 missiles inbound now.
(SOUNDBITE OF SIREN)
PFEIFFER: This was earlier than there was cable, so there have been only a few stations. Many of the nation watched “The Day After.” It was principally a nuclear holocaust film. It scared me so badly that I can keep in mind the following day saying to my mother and father, are we going to die? And, you already know, I’ve by no means watched that film since, and it might not even be as scary as I keep in mind, however I am going to by no means know as a result of I am too scared to observe it once more. However it made me understand that I needed to return and watch some films I hadn’t seen and see how our society has wrestled with all these problems with what have we created? And are there machines extra highly effective than us? And…
KWONG: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: …Are you able to win a struggle in an period like this? So for me, this was an amazing likelihood to return and watch plenty of issues I hadn’t seen or rewatch some issues I had seen.
KWONG: Yeah. I am glad you introduced up “The Day After,” Sacha, as a result of it is a movie that basically had a real-world impact on society. Geoff, are you able to discuss that?
BRUMFIEL: Yeah. Effectively, Sacha was not the one one who had the pants scared off of her by this film. About 100 million Individuals, I believe – I regarded it up – watched it on the time…
KWONG: Oh, wow.
BRUMFIEL: …As she stated. So an enormous portion of the inhabitants noticed it, together with Ronald Reagan, who truly had it privately screened a few month earlier than it aired. In his diary, he wrote the film was, quote, “powerfully carried out and left me tremendously depressed.” And it is believed that really this was one of many components, not the one one, however one of many causes Reagan began pushing for some nuclear arms management throughout his presidency. And it might have led partially to the signing of the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty that restricted the usage of nuclear missiles in Europe. Reagan actually was affected by the film, by all account.
KWONG: A film does not get extra impactful than that. I imply, that is fairly astonishing. There have been actually dozens of films impressed by nuclear struggle, nuclear worry. Geoff, you Slacked me, like, 30 of them.
(LAUGHTER)
KWONG: However what are the movies which have actually outlined the style for you each?
BRUMFIEL: So I’d argue in all probability a very powerful and better of all of the nuclear films is “Dr. Strangelove Or: How I Realized To Cease Worrying And Love The Bomb.”
KWONG: What a title.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “DR. STRANGELOVE OR: HOW I LEARNED TO STOP WORRYING AND LOVE THE BOMB”)
PETER SELLERS: (As President Merkin Muffley) You understand how we have at all times talked about the opportunity of one thing going unsuitable with the bomb. The bomb, Dimitri – the hydrogen bomb.
BRUMFIEL: After which one you had me watch that I spotted I had truly seen earlier than, however the unique 1954 “Godzilla” is completely top-of-the-line nuclear dramas, I believe, that is ever been placed on the display.
KWONG: Yeah, “Dr. Strangelove Or: How I Realized To Cease Worrying And Love The Bomb” – Geoff, why do you suppose that film entered the zeitgeist prefer it did?
BRUMFIEL: Effectively, for many who have not seen “Dr. Strangelove,” it’s an incredible film directed by Stanley Kubrick, starring Peter Sellers in a number of totally different roles. And it includes a type of weird situation during which the U.S. and the Soviet Union destroy the world by a doomsday system that is type of constructed as a type of nuclear deterrence. What makes it so nice is that it’s a farce.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “DR. STRANGELOVE OR: HOW I LEARNED TO STOP WORRYING AND LOVE THE BOMB”)
SELLERS: (As President Merkin Muffley) Gents, you’ll be able to’t struggle in right here. That is the struggle room.
BRUMFIEL: It’s a very, very humorous film about people screwing up, principally, and – with the assistance of machines and ending all life on the planet. Kubrick himself stated, like, they began attempting to make it as a drama…
KWONG: Actually?
BRUMFIEL: …However it felt so bizarre and so hilarious that they simply ended up making it a comedy. And what’s fascinating is there’s one other film that got here out across the identical time referred to as “Fail Protected,” which may be very related however was a drama however by no means actually landed in the identical method “Strangelove” did. So I believe it is a function of among the nice nuclear films is that they do not at all times type of try to play out the straight drama of a nuclear apocalypse, whether or not it is a monster, like “Godzilla,” or it is a comedy, like “Dr. Strangelove.” They type of look barely askance on the horror of nuclear struggle, and I believe that helps viewers to…
KWONG: Course of it.
BRUMFIEL: …Type of course of it.
PFEIFFER: The opposite factor that basically struck me about “Dr. Strangelove” was it’s a terribly cynical have a look at authorities and army and the individuals in energy making selections that have an effect on individuals within the discipline and the sky. However it was a reminder that for many years and many years, now we have felt fairly cynical concerning the decision-makers. It was a reminder of the way it parallels immediately.
KWONG: I believe that that is what makes “Godzilla (1954)” so fascinating, truly, as a result of the movie – I do know it is a few lizard that comes out of the ocean and makes these buildings and prepare vehicles appear to be fashions – which they have been for the time. It was all, like, sensible results. However it’s dealing so straight with authorities and scientist decision-making.
PFEIFFER: Sure.
KWONG: Are you able to discuss – Geoff, you watched “Godzilla (1954)”. What did you suppose?
BRUMFIEL: You realize, what’s so fascinating about it’s that lots of people say “Godzilla” is a metaphor for the bomb, and…
KWONG: Proper.
BRUMFIEL: …Definitely the scenes the place it is incinerating Tokyo and killing individuals really feel that method.
KWONG: Yeah.
BRUMFIEL: However it’s additionally fascinating to me. They’re type of wrestling with these bigger points. You realize, the people in “Godzilla,” whether or not they’re the scientists or the army males – they’re at all times making the unsuitable choice. They’re at all times scary Godzilla, you already know? And I additionally suppose it is type of fascinating Godzilla is a 2-million-year-old monster that emerges from the deep and…
KWONG: Due to H-bomb testing.
BRUMFIEL: Due to…
KWONG: He was created by, like…
BRUMFIEL: Effectively, he was wrested from his roost by an H-bomb check.
KWONG: That is proper. His habitat is…
PFEIFFER: (Laughter).
BRUMFIEL: His habitat.
KWONG: …Destroyed.
BRUMFIEL: And a lot of “Godzilla” focuses on the civilian expertise, on the hospitals full of casualties and the burning, you already know, house buildings. It should actually really feel as if some type of historical beast deep inside all of us has been awoken. And, you already know, I believe that there is type of that fascinating juxtaposition as nicely. The H-bomb is one thing new, and but, these fears and harmful tendencies are very previous. And that, after all – these elements of human nature are what led to those gadgets within the first place.
KWONG: Sacha, what movie for you has outlined the style, of any we’ve not talked about or a perspective that you’ve got discovered from watching these rising up, or now?
PFEIFFER: There’s one other older film I watched for the primary time prepping for this referred to as “On The Seashore.” It got here out in 1959.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, “ON THE BEACH”)
FRED ASTAIRE: (As Julian Osborne) Who would ever have believed that human beings can be silly sufficient to blow themselves off the face of the Earth?
PFEIFFER: Initially, it is an opportunity to observe these nice well-known previous film stars – Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner and even Fred Astaire. And this has a extremely fascinating plot. Mainly, there’s been an atomic struggle. Many of the world is gone. Australia has been spared as a result of the radiation hasn’t gotten there but, however it’s making its method there. So that you see individuals wrestling with, how a lot time do now we have left? What can we do? Ought to we finish our lives preemptively, and the way? And that is going to sound unusual, however there’s additionally a love story in it. And also you see this type of frisky, semi-risque-for-the-era relationship between Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner. So it is great performing, very delicate and reflective. I really feel prefer it’s bought all of it, and I actually loved it.
KWONG: Is there any unifying message amongst a few of these movies, or do you suppose all of them land elsewhere? Sacha, what do you suppose?
PFEIFFER: I believe the unifying message is, be very cautious. And generally the flicks say it is too late, and generally the flicks say there’s nonetheless hope. What do you suppose, Geoff?
BRUMFIEL: Yeah. I imply, I believe that it’s – I believe additionally these films type of fulfill a necessity people have for wrestling with loss of life…
KWONG: Yeah.
BRUMFIEL: …Writ giant. I believe it is actually fascinating that type of as we left the Chilly Battle and moved into this century, that want has been changed by a special style, which is the zombie apocalypse film. I believe that that has type of artistically changed these nuclear apocalypse films, which is type of unlucky in a method ‘trigger the risk hasn’t actually gone away.
PFEIFFER: Effectively, I did discover myself questioning. You realize, we noticed a surge of those films after World Battle II, the bombing of Japan. We noticed one other surge after Cuban missile disaster, Chilly Battle fears. And now we’re arguably having one other heightened worry of nuclear energy.
KWONG: That is true.
PFEIFFER: However I do not know…
KWONG: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: …That we’re seeing it mirrored in our artwork but.
BRUMFIEL: Yeah. I would agree with that.
KWONG: Yeah. I imply, to speak concerning the current second, you already know, earlier this week, the mayor of Hiroshima, Kazumi Matsui – he marked the eightieth anniversary of the bombing, and he gave a speech imploring the world’s powers to surrender nuclear weapons, which isn’t what’s occurring. What is going on now in immediately’s – are we in one other nuclear age, Geoff? And is the worry larger in some methods, even when it isn’t but mirrored in our artwork?
BRUMFIEL: We’re completely getting ready to one other nuclear arms race, sure. China is radically increasing its nuclear arsenal. Russia is creating new sorts of weapons. The U.S. is modernizing its nuclear weapons. And we even have, you already know, plenty of new nuclear powers which might be build up their stockpiles, whether or not that is India, Pakistan, you already know, the chance of Iran going nuclear. So we’re in a period of accelerating nuclear peril, for sure.
And you already know that treaty that Reagan signed after “The Day After” – it is gone. The U.S. and Russia have gotten out of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty, they usually’re constructing these sorts of missiles once more. Terribly harmful weapons as a result of they provide little or no warning, so individuals haven’t a lot time to react and determine whether or not to launch nukes again.
KWONG: Effectively, if that is the – nicely, do you suppose artwork can save us on this second? Do you suppose we’ll heed the messages of those films? It is odd that films are those type of pointing an ethical compass, however…
PFEIFFER: Effectively, I believe we have had so many films attempting to shake us into the belief that these are primarily unwinnable wars, that if we hadn’t…
KWONG: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: …We’ve not gotten the message by now, I do not suppose it is getting by. And possibly we’re not seeing any extra films now as a result of there is not any warning left to provide that hasn’t been given.
KWONG: That’s NPR’s Geoff Brumfiel and Sacha Pfeiffer. Thanks a lot to you each for becoming a member of us.
PFEIFFER: You are welcome.
BRUMFIEL: Thanks.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
Copyright © 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts might fluctuate. Transcript textual content could also be revised to right errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org could also be edited after its unique broadcast or publication. The authoritative document of NPR’s programming is the audio document.
