NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly speaks with Labour MP Clive Lewis concerning the far-right “free-speech” march in London final weekend.
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
One of many many Brits watching that massive march right here in London over the weekend was Clive Lewis. He’s a Labour MP – member of parliament. He is spent loads of time enthusiastic about what it means to be British, what it means to wave the Union Jack having grown up in Northampton with an English mom and a father from Grenada within the Caribbean. Clive Lewis, welcome.
CLIVE LEWIS: Hey. Beautiful to be right here.
KELLY: What was high of thoughts for you as you watched – I do not know, I noticed estimates of some 150,000 individuals on the streets of London for a march organized by the hard-right activist Tommy Robinson?
LEWIS: I feel, like many different individuals, I anticipated perhaps a smaller demonstration of what you’d name the hardcore – the form of hardened Tommy Robinson supporters.
KELLY: And it was not a small crowd in any respect. It was, as I stated…
LEWIS: Oh, it turned out to…
KELLY: …Many, many hundreds of individuals.
LEWIS: I imply, it was lots of of – I’d say 150,000, perhaps extra. It was large. And I feel for lots of people watching that, your rapid response is, is that this 200,000 hardened racists and fascists marching within the streets of London? And I sat in my window, and I seemed down into the gang. And there have been individuals who form of perhaps – you already know, with the banners they had been holding, perhaps match that description. However lots of them simply gave the impression to be those that I acknowledge – individuals I grew up with, individuals I stay subsequent door to. That really was extra terrifying.
I really had a good friend – a great faculty good friend – who messaged me to say, I am right here. I am on the march. You understand, he is white, English. I am blended heritage. And I used to be like, what are you doing on this march? And he was like, I am right here. I need to be listened to. I need to really feel happy with my nation once more. Now, I do know Darren (ph), and he is an excellent man. He is one in all my greatest mates. And he is received Black household that seem like me. And he was on the march. In order that instantly, you already know, strengthened the view that, OK, this can be a lot extra advanced. You may’t simply put all of those individuals right into a field now. There are individuals who could also be on a trajectory in the direction of a more durable right-wing form of perspective, however really, they don’t seem to be there but.
KELLY: One thing that will resonate for People listening to you – you posted after the march concerning the extent to which British establishments – and also you talked about railways or the well being system, the NHS – how they have been hollowed out, and it leaves individuals feeling disconnected, feeling powerless. Say extra.
LEWIS: So, you already know, one of many issues that I am watching – so Nigel Farage is our equal of Donald Trump, in some methods, politically.
KELLY: Your fellow British MP?
LEWIS: Sure, he is an MP with me. And I’ve seen as of late that that is somebody who mainly champions, you already know, massive oil. He champions wealth. He champions low tax. However I’ve seen as of late, even he has begun – as did Donald Trump earlier than the final election – began speaking about what individuals would name a form of much more socialist form of rhetoric and language concerning the economic system in some areas the place issues aren’t working. Like, for instance, on this nation we’ve got a privatized water system which is not working, and huge income are being made, and the prices to us, the general public, are going via the roof. And he is now moved to a form of public-private partnership place.
So there are areas the place he understands that persons are indignant with the established order. They’re indignant with how their economic system has been hollowed out, the well being care system. All of these items now, persons are more and more skeptical, more and more saying, I do not belief you. They really feel marginalized, and so they really feel unlistened to. And the primary individuals out of the block to say, we hear you and we’ll change that, are the correct.
KELLY: Very last thing to ask you, Clive Lewis. I used to be studying that the rally over the weekend right here was organized partially to honor the American conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who was shot and killed final week. As you watch, from this aspect of the Atlantic, occasions enjoying out in America, together with the very partisan debate that has adopted Kirk’s loss of life, something resonate for you?
LEWIS: Sure, it does. I imply, I clearly took an curiosity in what Charlie had stated after the very fact of his killing, and I’ll admit that I did not know an excessive amount of about him earlier than. And he’s somebody who had some what I’d think about to be fairly controversial, you already know, racist views. And but, you already know, he’s entitled to specific his opinions inside the regulation, and he should not have been killed for that. However what I’m seeing is that it seems like some persons are taking it as a possibility for enhanced political repression. And I feel that is the issue. When individuals speak about freedom of speech, I do not all the time suppose they really imply freedom of speech. I feel what they really imply is freedom for us to talk our values and for these to have better weight than yours, and really, we could even shut yours down.
KELLY: And the way does that observe, or not, with the dialog right here in Britain?
LEWIS: I feel, you already know, it is very comparable. We’re perhaps a number of years behind you. I do not suppose we’re as deeply divided as you but. I feel the division of – significantly in wealth and energy is starker in the USA, however we’re catching up quickly.
KELLY: Clive Lewis – he is a Labour member of parliament right here in Britain, one in all many voices we’re listening to this week as we cowl President Trump’s go to to the U.Ok. Clive Lewis, thanks.
LEWIS: Thanks.
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